koreeyong

20160730 Silk SE - Bandis

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Played as Arch Bishop in Kit Kat guild, last night just full with lag. OTL
Kit Kat (25) VS Eternal Playmates (36)
The video of last night Silk SE WoE, good woe and hope incoming WoE will be intense WoE too.
(Feel cheated for Normal SE just now when saw EP no come attack at first min while they have bulk in Saturday morning.)

 

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that's 4 Years ago. which is invalid reasoning if you guys try to change the WOE and expect the same outcome when its  4 YEARS AGO. unless you can get the population same as 4 years ago. then i don't mind. i would love more action and chaos and Enemy. but if you change WOE when its 1 guild vs 1 guild. that's just stupid. but lets say there's a 3rd guild? WOAH 3rd guild? How many are they? can they even do a Proper woe?. 

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Are you actually comparing ICF & Jambu to the woe scene now?
Please stop, you're just making yourself look bad. Outsiders in 2012 were like Loli wars, a shadow of their former selves.  

Side Note: The July 12th video was the one that triggered me into making "The Forgotten".

Back then WoE had story lines, drama , arguably better players and importantly  TT was alot smarter. 

 

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Thats 3 years before the +16 becoming easy as shit.

Also before the IB buff gears so why are you comparing that to this?

 

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tbh i would love to lose. i like the idea of coming up ways on how to deal with Dominating Guild with my guildie. and Making Builds with them. and also it would be soo good Seeing the Tears of Top Guild.

Example: When Get Rekt got destroyed just from an Alliance with bee. The Amount of Salt was soo good.

 

and most of our members actually go Online to play. since they know we are losing and would really need as much people as we need. Now its just. "Do We Have Enemy? None? alright i won't online" 

 

Honestly its more fun on the losing side since you know 100% you'll have action on WOE, you got a goal to rekt or over throw this fcking guild. while we are dominating its pretty boring and we just do karaoke till woe End. Since there isn't any good enemy to rekt

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Even the GM's brain is outdated? Well I'm fine about the idea of killing woe, can finally leave in peace

4 Castles WOE with 3 guilds recap (2 hours woe):
-3 guilds fight on the same castle for the first 1 hour and 55 mins.
-Then all of them runs to the remaining 3 castles on the last 5 mins mainly for

  • free castle treasures oh yea
  • free MVPs through guild dungeons oh yea
  • bragging rights (we got 2 castles, you dont) oh yea


    Seems like pretty good points to consider. Lets open 5 castles this time/lv

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Being a Nostalgia fag:

When ICF used Loki in Hohen castle we couldnt' break it for weeks. Then we had to go to Hohen use loki ourselves check where we needed to move to be able to ED it. ( Detale card was bugged)

Some people who quit for years even showed up to help us push that WoE. It was amazing. sadly i doubt it would happen again. 

The Mentality of players back then was totally different. Everyone wanted good fights. Nothing else

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I hope you're joking. At least back then it wasn't necessarily a one shot fest like it is today. 
Battles then were long and intense. Now, only like a minute and it's over. zzzz.

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Well my point was merely to show that it is possible(?) to have 'action' in a multiple castle setting.

Because it was mentioned earlier that in multiple castle setting, guilds will just defend a castle each and, leads to boring WoE, 'killing' WoE(?).

I didn't intend to compare how WoE changed over the years.

Now I hear it's no longer possible to have this kind of action because of player mentality changed? and various other changes.

 

also now it is mentioned that having multiple castles would 'kill' WoE by giving 'free' castles to all...Free dungeons, treasures, bragging.

But isn't WPS a kind of free reward as well? Just in a different form. Back then there was no WPS, so those castles might played a role in enticement.

 

That aside, my reasoning now was that 1 Castle WoEs doesn't exactly make WoE appealing for regular players, or WPS rewards simply was not good enough.

Then it was suggested in the other thread to improve WPS rewards. This will allow people to at least earn rewards/WPS by standing inside castles.

But WPS was conceived as a side bonus for currently WoEing guilds to begin with, and I thought it could get new guilds to WoE by sustaining their supplies.

I was wrong, as I heard that there are WPS-farmer/guilds who farm WPS without engaging in action even though they are in WoE.

This is not what it was intended for.

There needs to be some form of "WoE" encouragement/reward that will require them to fight/battle/engage in WoE, to put in some decent effort.

Having them to fight for a castle under more equal footing sounds like a possible solution.

How? By having several Silk castles in one session. (no +16 stuff, and if you recall I only proposed 2 out of 9 WoE sessions to be like this for variety.)

That is because I don't expect any new guild to stand up to the current established guilds in 1 castle scenarios any time soon.

But if they happen to be willing to do so, then the WPS-improvement option can be surely be looked into.

Problem is there aren't any, or if there are, they are probably overwhelmed by the current setting.

 

Not exactly being carebear/spoonfeeding because top guilds can still dominate (refer Devourment's sig) in such scenarios. But it will be harder for them to strategize to cover more castles. It would then makes things slightly easier for new guilds, but not amounting to 'free' rewards like WPS. And it might just be the 'nudge' these regular players are seeking to make them start WoEing. This opens the door to possible competition among smaller guilds vs a bigger guilds.

Other than that, one of the ideas I had was to provide some WoE-simulation-training system (like Rush-BG) as a bridge for PvMers so that guilds can learn more about and experience WoE, formulate strategies to better prepare them for actual WoE.

 

3 hours ago, Sheep Poo said:

Honestly its more fun on the losing side since you know 100% you'll have action on WOE, you got a goal to rekt or over throw this fcking guild. while we are dominating its pretty boring and we just do karaoke till woe End. Since there isn't any good enemy to rekt

I agree with this. But the current stakes seem to be almost 0% for new guilds.

I cannot predict whether new guilds will want to WoE if there are more silk castles within a session. But don't you think that it is less overwhelming for them compared to the current settings?

By creating an environment that (I believe) is slightly more open than the current one, I can hope.

 

Peace.

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TBH is hard to get new guild/new blood player in Limit RO these days.
I'm happy to see new guild/new blood player join woe but most of them seems like forget WoE is a Long term event, is not the event that you can get your reward (castle loot/castle dungeon) immediately as instance dungeon.
Instance dungeon can clear easy if u meet certain require, but woe keep change due to member/party settings, you can't win with same pattern.
====================
Out of topic part
Can anyone can help in complete this WoE History in Limit RO, i can only put the part i remember.
2009 : ???
2010 : ???
2011 : ???
2012 : ICF dominate WoE after Fallen dismiss, The Forgotten created  (August)
2013 : Lewd aka EP start woe (January), ICF Dominate WoE after The Forgotten dismiss (March) , Kit Kat created at the night when TF dismiss ( March ), Kit Kat Dominate after ICF quit (September) , Beetrayed start woe again (October), Comrade + Renagade + EP+ Kit Kat active in this year
2014 : Kit Kat Inactive, WolvesReign created ( January), WolvesReign quit (May), Beetrayed + Kit kat + Comrade + Renagade + EP was active in this year
2015 : Beetrayed Dominate after Kit Kat quit (May), Beetrayed + Renagade + EP active in this year
2016 : Kit Kat back (January), Beetrayed + Kit Kat + Renagade + EP active in this year

......Hi EP, what are you doing in these years? Is unfair if u keep say other guild can be strong because they have good player/epic item with them. I still remember the day when KK started, KK cant get any castle and be the side get bully by other guilds. Back to the day when KK and EP break ICF full invest castle (Yuno SE) at 2013, this cant archived if EP don't have good player or player who know WoE. You had make this archive before, u just need ppl who can help u keep up this.
This server have many WoE guild before, eg: lovebeat, vanquish, LOP, bliss, Loli Wars, Remants etc , i believe most of them have similar history at the part try to keep guild active. Don't have good player? Train the ppl you have or let's be good player then, you need keep practice and update everyone for this.
Get a lead/ecaller who can really give command and hold member, this can help for stabilize guild, after you have lead who can hold guild, core member mostly already at there for you. A guild with lead and core member mean you already have lowest number need, now u just need keep recruit and try get new blood, train them, show them what's WoE, share the happy when u win, share the sad when lost.
The guild only stay after you can thru ups and downs with win/lost.

For those people who wish to join WoE with new guild or own guild, please remember woe is not short term event , WoE is a long term event you need invest time/money to update ur item/member, keep learn new skill/strategy just try to get chance the bear enemy guild.
The guild gone if lost will and cant adapt the change, let's encourage each other (?)

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Thank you for the wallotext (now i have to write mine too D:< ) But something doesn't sound right... reply in blue:

18 minutes ago, Yuuki said:

Now I hear it's no longer possible to have this kind of action because of player mentality changed? and various other changes.

It's funny because we know what will happen exactly because player (of EP) mentality never changed over so many years, and that is why we know how woe scene will end up to be, i.e. dead if they get to defend their own castle. The reason "it's no longer possible" is actually because EP is now the "big guild", instead of the old guilds that are now gone, that have the mindset to gvg. But yeah in that sense i suppose you can say "player mentality changed" because the players in the limelight are now different.

 

also now it is mentioned that having multiple castles would 'kill' WoE by giving 'free' castles to all...Free dungeons, treasures, bragging.

But isn't WPS a kind of free reward as well? Just in a different form. Back then there was no WPS, so those castles might played a role in enticement.

I personally don't mind not having WPS because my end goal is to get castle and all the glory kek. But some people have different mindset - they want to maximise reward for spending time in the game (guild with most celery and/or some sort of incentive such as this, for woeing). To those people it probably goes like this, "im not gonna food, not gonna pot, cuz if i do that i wouldnt profit much". This WPS system basically gives them a bit more profit, thats all, and if you remove WPS, you will reduce WOE population because this kind of people won't find the reason to join WOE anymore.

"Then what's the problem?" People's mindset.

"How to solve that?" Well i dont know how to change people's mindset easily, if i do i'd probably be living a way better life now(?)

That aside, my reasoning now was that 1 Castle WoEs doesn't exactly make WoE appealing for regular players, or WPS rewards simply was not good enough.

Then it was suggested in the other thread to improve WPS rewards. This will allow people to at least earn rewards/WPS by standing inside castles.

But WPS was conceived as a side bonus for currently WoEing guilds to begin with, and I thought it could get new guilds to WoE by sustaining their supplies.

I was wrong, as I heard that there are WPS-farmer/guilds who farm WPS without engaging in action even though they are in WoE.

This is not what it was intended for.

There needs to be some form of "WoE" encouragement/reward that will require them to fight/battle/engage in WoE, to put in some decent effort.

This is presumptuous of me but before you go into this, please DO NOT implement item drop for stones, barricades and emps. I said it before and I'll say it again - this will only make guilds go "**** the invest, let's break the emp over and over until the last 5mins, see who's the lucky guild to get the last one for some free treasure boxes over the weekends.

Having them to fight for a castle under more equal footing sounds like a possible solution.

Again, on KK side holding 4 100/100 invested castles, we agree to let GMs reset them all, change castles, and so everyone starts from 0 again, without the super tanky yellow rock carrying our ass. That is what I call equal footing, not introducing more policies and complicating things. You want to babysit non dominating guild we are fine with reset. We are not fine with killing the GvG fun.

You say you enjoy the WOE videos from 4 years ago? You know what's the fun part in it? Obviousfuckingly it's the GVGs,

...Or do you want to watch lord kei's 5minute storage session at town?

 

...Or koree's alt tab warping time? (above)

...Or random chirping because nobody's attacking the castle?

 

How? By having several Silk castles in one session. (no +16 stuff, and if you recall I only proposed 2 out of 9 WoE sessions to be like this for variety.)

It probably makes more sense to revise Silk settings and see how much community is willing to give up the OP gears to further tone down the difficulty for new players. This means a thread in community opinion, and see how many more things you want to ban - incoming rage like i have +20 old bio hg and +10 also just for silk, now you dont let me use it?!!?! ragee yadayada but hey, maybe majority would favour more into this in hopes of getting more fresh blood.

That is because I don't expect any new guild to stand up to the current established guilds in 1 castle scenarios any time soon. Oh so the new guilds Eternal Potatoes new guilds should avoid the established guilds and sit in their empty castle? We are not fine with killing the GvG fun.

But if they happen to be willing to do so, then the WPS-improvement option can be surely be looked into.I dont see how it can be improved to get more players who actually want to woe, but rather it'll get more farmers to sit in the corner, unless you can convince me with a brand new system (again).

Problem is there aren't any, or if there are, they are probably overwhelmed by the current setting.

"Overwhelmed by current setting?" Again see above on revamping silk woe system. 

Also here's another problem, in general/slightly offtopic: accept the fact it's pay2win because of how the admin set things up: RMT is legalised and donations are OP. Point is: any newbie can instantly become "veteran" /  "pro" as long as they pay up, or spend 5-10x more time than others in the game farming. I honestly don't see how you can close down the gap easily because we're talking about people who spent 5 months in this game, vs those who spent 5 years here. The rich always gets richer, it's how the world works. a ranger with full +16 mvp set can 1shot things easily (dmg in millions), farm mvps/hard instances solo, get more loots way faster than a ranger relying on parties, wearing mediocre gears, doing 5-6digit damage.

Not exactly being carebear/spoonfeeding because top guilds can still dominate (refer Devourment's sig) in such scenarios. But it will be harder for them to strategize to cover more castles.

True

It would then makes things slightly easier for new guilds, but not amounting to 'free' rewards like WPS. And it might just be the 'nudge' these regular players are seeking to make them start WoEing. This opens the door to possible competition among smaller guilds vs a bigger guilds.

Other than that, one of the ideas I had was to provide some WoE-simulation-training system (like Rush-BG) as a bridge for PvMers so that guilds can learn more about and experience WoE, formulate strategies to better prepare them for actual WoE.

I like that we have something that's somewhat close to WoE, but the only thing you can really learn from BG is the flag system (Conquest/Rush) and nothing else. Why, because we're back to the same problems above:

  1. People mindset. More than half the BG population i see are obviously not trying their best, because to try your best means using all the oprecious food/pots you could otherwise sell for lots of money.
  2. Settings. BG setting is NOT the same as WOE setting. Actually if you want people to "prepare for actual WOE", i would imagine the BGs in silk setting, because your targeted audience is "noobs" (in terms of woeing). But nope, BG is similar to normal WOE setting (1mvp, kvm etc).

Also, to my personal experience, playing in BG is complete bs compared to playing in WOE with my own guild. I'm not sure how the others feel, but if it's meant for me to feel like woeing then honestly it's not very enjoyable. "How do we improve BG so it'd be like WoE then?" You probably can't, because you're expecting a bunch of randoms to work together well, with every single person doing their best. This problem is already in KVM but in a much smaller scale, to the point nobody really cares that much because if you're good enough, you can still win with 1v5, but in Rush/Conquest where it goes 10+ per team, 1 person is so much less significant compared to in KVM.

[sheep poo's quote]

I agree with this. But the current stakes seem to be almost 0% for new guilds.

I cannot predict whether new guilds will want to WoE if there are more silk castles within a session. But don't you think that it is less overwhelming for them compared to the current settings?

By creating an environment that (I believe) is slightly more open than the current one, I can hope.

ok, well, We are not fine with killing the GvG fun.

Peace.

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I also agree with suggestion gm yuuki ,and if possible instead of getting WPS per min (I don't know exactly how many minutes to get WPS,sorry) why do u try change it instead of waiting change it,every time we killed a player who own the castle (ex. KK,Bee,EP) we can get WPS (SHOULD be Limit like 20pcs per woe,so the player would not abuse that much), so new/farmer player encourage(force) to participate to woe rather than sit around oye.. xP   

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1 hour ago, Cj said:

I also agree with suggestion gm yuuki ,and if possible instead of getting WPS per min (I don't know exactly how many minutes to get WPS,sorry) why do u try change it instead of waiting change it,every time we killed a player who own the castle (ex. KK,Bee,EP) we can get WPS (SHOULD be Limit like 20pcs per woe,so the player would not abuse that much), so new/farmer player encourage(force) to participate to woe rather than sit around oye.. xP   

What about support class? No reward for them?

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1 hour ago, Cj said:

I also agree with suggestion gm yuuki ,and if possible instead of getting WPS per min (I don't know exactly how many minutes to get WPS,sorry) why do u try change it instead of waiting change it,every time we killed a player who own the castle (ex. KK,Bee,EP) we can get WPS (SHOULD be Limit like 20pcs per woe,so the player would not abuse that much), so new/farmer player encourage(force) to participate to woe rather than sit around oye.. xP   

Woe Isn't a giant PvP room, it has objectives, team work and other shit

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I dont have much idea for support class yet, but I`m still thinking of it I need more ideas HELP!!!. @Dan the goal is encourage the others to participate , oncs they have a guild it will start the team work. <3

I`m just giving a suggestion if u guys have better idea`s that cool then..x(

Out of topic:

@Kyou do u still have EGR`s? PM me xP

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8 hours ago, Cj said:

I also agree with suggestion gm yuuki ,and if possible instead of getting WPS per min (I don't know exactly how many minutes to get WPS,sorry) why do u try change it instead of waiting change it,every time we killed a player who own the castle (ex. KK,Bee,EP) we can get WPS (SHOULD be Limit like 20pcs per woe,so the player would not abuse that much), so new/farmer player encourage(force) to participate to woe rather than sit around oye.. xP   

stop trying to turn woe into a farm. Reread what i wrote about breaking emp - killing player for reward will have the same shitty result. Supports? no worries people will leave guild, go naked and let support classes kill them first. Then repeat the cycle by changing chars/accounts to kill more

We are not fine with killing the GvG fun.

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9 hours ago, Cj said:

I also agree with suggestion gm yuuki ,and if possible instead of getting WPS per min (I don't know exactly how many minutes to get WPS,sorry) why do u try change it instead of waiting change it,every time we killed a player who own the castle (ex. KK,Bee,EP) we can get WPS (SHOULD be Limit like 20pcs per woe,so the player would not abuse that much), so new/farmer player encourage(force) to participate to woe rather than sit around oye.. xP   

 

When WoE is turning into a farming area also. LUL. @Yuuki with all the carebears you guys doing look at the mindset of your guildmate baby's. shows hows the mindset of other guilds are

 

@note: is it really that hard to stay inside the castle? to get WPS? its not like you guys got 34% Demi Human Reduction only and gets 1Hit.

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It's true that getting new guilds to WoE is impossible without capable leader/cores. /desp

The Einbroch guild lacks WoE exposure, Brasilis guild lacks members and EP as an old guild still lacks consistency.

another guild I'm aware of only does trans due to iirc gear & number disparity.

Regarding the WoE exprosure issue, the WoE training idea that would improve new guild's/ (or the average player's) concept of WoE, it will not be like BG, but merely inspired by it because BG is indeed too different from WoE as @Takudan said. 

What I have in mind is a realistic training regime similar to an instance, with guild-party tasked with the goal of emp-shattering facing a horde of NPC-defenders (who will be smarter/harder that what we have in Rush/Conquest) that will stand in their way.

It should come with difficulty levels so they can improve as they go, and eventually become prepared for WoE.

Regarding gear disparity, revision of silk's restriction list can be called for as mentioned.

I would prioritize these issues over having more castles per session.

 

Regarding "How" to make players to want to WoE.

1. Improving WPS would likely make more people just want to idle in castles. I wonder if it will actually make old people come back to WoE, or to join existing guilds.

2. Barricade & Stone drop never crossed my mind. We did considered Emp-drop tho, but then it was calculated that if the whole hour was dedicated to chain breaking, the total WPS farmed would still be insignificant compared to how much a reasonably sized guild will be able to obtain just by being in the castle. That said, the player "farm everything you see" mentality is indeed dangerous.

3. Masq-bonus, kill-bonus, heal-bonus, etc sounds good on paper but if the enemy is significantly weaker or if the "farm everything you see" mentality is triggered then...

4. WoE Training & additional silk restrictions (refer above),

5. Guilds don't have capable leads/cores to guide them in WoE (is this even an issue?)

6. ...suggest!

 

Due to Bee&Rekt's busyness and Ep's impotentness makes KK stand out as being dominant.

There is nothing wrong with that. And it it up to the others to find a way to beat Kk.

The ideal scenario in hypothetical multiple castle settings would be those EP & KK fighting it out in a castle (EP is too old to not be established) and smaller guilds VS fragments of EPKK. If EP were to stay in other castles, then wouldn't KK just need to rekt the hell out of them there?

However, even with more castles these smaller guilds might not stand a chance against fragments of those 2 guilds due to lack of exposure/gear disparity hence the focus on these issues first.

 

Peace.

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