Rubick

Nerf Sura and Skill "Gates of Hell"

Suggestions For Possible Adjustments  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Suggestions For Possible Adjustments

    • Make Gates of Hell Forced Neutral
    • Have Gates of Hell accept Demi Human reduction
    • Have the Gates of Hell Sphere Consumption back to 5 instead of 2
    • Have the Rising Dragon Buff removed when a Sura Got dispelled
    • Disable the Use of Gentle Touch Energy Gain in composite of Gentle Touch Revitalize
    • Have the Gates of Hell damage based on User's Attack
    • Reduce the Number of usable Sealed MvP Cards to 1 (Like Normal MvP Cards)
    • No Adjustment Needed (if you Choose this Option Kindly Provide an Instance in which I didn't explain carefully why Sura needs to be Nerf either way, you choose this option because you don't want it to be nerf and you are part of the group who exploit it's Overpowered Skills)


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First of all, I am suggesting this because I find the Skill very Overpowered and since our Kind GM Lai wants the server to be balanced at all sides, I would just like to provide my Insight in regards with the matter. This suggestion is only based on what I noticed and other might have been noticing for a long time. The equip builds that I'm providing are the equips which are applicable on Sura and was not given by anyone it is a mere observation of the possibilities.

Typically Sura always excels in PvP matters but the Skill and the equipment availability seems to be very Overpowered rendering other jobs to be useless against it and the Only Jobs that has a Chance to Kill a Sura (a Sura that is on full reduction , that we will be talking shortly) correct me if I'm wrong or suggest other jobs, is a Ranger with Full Redux Cluster Bomb Build, Doram Picky Peck Build or another Sura.

Let's Take our Points to the Matters that includes a Good PvP character 

  1. Access to Mobility
  2. Access to Damage Reduction and Damage
  3. Access to Crowd Control
  4. Skill catalyst or requirements
  5. Elemental Access
  6. Attacking Counters and Defensive counters

1. Access to Mobility 

  • Sura has this Skill "Body Relocation" in which Sura can move on a maximum of 20 cells per cast (Correct me if I'm wrong but I did count it xD), the Skill requires a Spirit Sphere to be cast (Which in fact no problem for Sura because of the Skill "Rising Dragon") or none if you have "Explosive State", Sorcerer Skill "Dispel" can only remove the Explosive State but the Rising Dragon is still active having Sura be able to access Body Relocation 15 more or less since Rising Dragon can keep 15 sphere at max, 15 spheres is more than enough to move out and rebuff specially Sura has Blessing and Agi Buffs and can re cast explosive state and Dangerous soul collect again and be able to accumulate another 15 souls for the battle. Body Relocation also ignore on-hit Crowd Control such as Sorcerer's "Extreme Vacuum", Doram's "Silvervine Root", Ranger's "Warg Bite" and Traps
  • Conclusion : Sura has the most Powerful Mobility Skill in Game and Goodluck in Chasing a Sura 

2. Access to Damage Reduction and Damage

  • The Skill Gate of Hell is Based on the User's current HP so all you have to do is have a High HP and Expect your damage to be Good , the Damage will increase if your HP is getting lower, ensures that you always have the upper hand in fight other Job except of coarse another Sura. Gates of Hell damage cannot be full reduced by Long range physical reduction and has Elemental access, also GoH ignores Demi Human Reduction, so if you are planning to use 98% damage reduction to fight against a Sura if you are not a Ranger or Sura , you have 2 choice , be a standing Punching bag and accept those hit without having the chance to fight back or sacrifice your reduction and give out some damage but start chasing a sura while he just return in and out to wreck you with the help of Body Relocation and  the Sura Machine Gun Gates of Hell. Access to 98% damage reduction is quite popular in game which gives Sura the best advantage of it , a Set of Cat Ear Beret (16%),{Gambler Set(7%) or Mobscarf Set(4%)} ,Kardui/Holy Coat (7%) Thara Frog on Shield (30%),Survivor's Shoes(5%) which a Set of Survivor's Rod (10%), Kirin Triple Cranial(20%) and Prontera Militia Glove(3%) 2 Prontera Militia if you use Mobscraf Set will give you access to 98% reduction. Let's check out the some possibilities of the implication, if a Sura has 100 vit HP should go in about 50-70k (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did try to check it,I consulted to a friend in regards with the maximum HP of a Sura that can be attained with full buffs and food (Including Gemstones and Star Stones) is on average of 320k- 340) now let's check for the available Card slots for this build 1 for the Head Gear(2 if you use the Mobscarf Set) 1Body Gear 1 for Weapon 1 for Garment and 2 for the accessory, Let's split the Build Up.. Labeling the 2 builds as Mobscarf Set and Gambler Set

                              ->Mobscarf Set has 7 available Slot with your Choice of Shield

                                    -Applicable cards for the Mobscarf Set

                                         *Headgear (Kiel and Sealed Kiel which gives 20% Aftercast delay if HG is refine to +15)

                                         *BodyGear (Sealed TaoGunka which gives 75% max HP if Bodygear is +15)

                                         *Weapon (Sealed Incantation Samurai which Pierces Def)

                                         *Garment (Deviling or can be any elemental resist)

                                         *Accessory (2x Alligator Card or Apostle of Morocc Shinaim and Apostle of Morocc Ahat Card)

                       +The Mobscarf build can be use to fight any job effortlessly, let's check out some, Rune Knight will deal low damage with that 98% if an RK chose to do full attack goodluck on getting wrecked hit with GoH, not to mention that GoH and be cast like Machine Gun having access to Kiel and Sealed Kiel Closed the After cast delay with 50% after cast and 15% for Job Stones and 10% for Holy Coat which gives a total 75% after cast delay (can be increased with the use of Gemstones) RK are also melle And yeah Go chase that Body Relocating Sura :). Another one is Genetic, genetic can "Almost" do this build except that the main Damaging Skill of Gene is Acid Demonstration, AD "Almost" have the same Skill configuration as GoH , Acid Demonstration Ignores Demi Human Redux and can be Spam except that AD is Forced Neutral and is Full Long Range damage (You can use Fire Expansion lvl 5 to have it on Fire and Melle but goodluck if you can hit it on a Sura that can Body Relocate that easily) Deviling Card and Pneuma (Which Sura can use anytime on it's advantage) Gene is a No.. No.. match match for Sura, another job that has a chance is a Ranger full redux bomb im not quite familiar with the build but I can see some that can do this build and have this build the problem of this build is that The Bomb can be placed on a fix location and here goes our good friend Body Relocation , goodluck in hitting those bombs.

                              ->Gambler Set has 6 available Slot with your Choice of Shield

                                     -Same Card Slots except for the Sealed Kiel or the Kiel, can be change to have Sealed Kiel on HG and Thanatos card on Weapon. This build is typically used for Sura vs Sura fights since Gambler set gives a flat amount of 40% GoH damage reduction. Which can be used by other Jobs to reduce the damage 

  • Conclusion : Sura can build up full Reduction damage (Limited to 98%) without sacrificing any possible damage 

3. Access to Crowd Control

  •     Sura has Skill called "Cursed Circle" and "Wind Mill" which is a good thing for fighting to have your stance back if in case you mess up CC can be used in combination with Asura Strike so You can stand there doing nothing while Asura Strike is being hammered on you, this Crowd control can be used to have the upper hand in case a disabler came on your range such as a Shadow Chaser, SC needs to be on melle range to cast Masquerades skill which is that Best Disabling skill in-game a typical SC uses Flying kick to get close to the enemy (Goodluck in aiming it with a Sura Dancing around with body relocation) the moment an SC secures it's melle distance that's when a Sura can secure that distance for the Crowd Control skills as well. Also Sura has skill "Gentle Touch Cure" which removes Stone , Freeze , Sleep and other Crowd control so yeah, good luck in pinning a Sura ..
  • Conclusion: Sura is untouchable with melle Range rendering melle classes such as RK, GX, SC, Star Glad and Other melle class unable to get close to a Sura

4. Skill catalyst or requirements

  • Mehhhh... you don't need anything for Sura to fight which makes it cheap for use unlike Rune Knights who uses a ton Runes to fight for what? get wrecked by Sura :) one more example is Genetic which uses Bombs, Plants and Chemicals to fight which is mehhh you can buy Chemical Scrolls now Gene Chemical Protection ? No problem i have scroll :) even Shadow Chasers need Paints to fight. Due to the recent update of Sura Skills Gates of Hell only uses 2 spheres and Gentle touch energy gain can be used together with Gentle Touch Revitalize which increase Gates of Hell damage up to 30% so yeah Hello Gates of hell Machine Gun , also you just need to cast Dangerous soul collect once to have 15 souls right away if the Buff "Rising Dragon" is Active, Dangerous Soul collect with no cast time can be attained with 1 sec reduced fix castime using Jobstones. so that'll be 7 time Gates of hell and more Gates of Hell incomming..
  • Conclusion : Sura only needs HP to fight

5. Elemental Access

  •      Unlike Genetic who has the Skill Acid Demonstration that "Almost has the same Skill Configuration" AD is forced neutral and it depends on the Target Vitality, Sura GoH is Pseudo Neutral Meaning it's not 100% neutral using elemental Weapon scrolls changes that Attack element, let's try to do a Situation analysis on a 1 vs 1 Genetic Vs Sura.

                       ->If a Sura used the same build as mention above and assume that the Shield of choice is a Armored Sleeve guard which gives 35% long range reduction and used 2x Alligator card that gives 10% long range reduction gives a total 45% long range redux and used an Immune manteau instead of Kirin triple Cranial (Of coarse Acid Demonstration ignores demi Human reduction and is based on attackers Matk and Atk using Triple Cranial Kirin will be your second choice)+10 Immune Manteau with Deviling gives 80% Neutral damage reduction making Acid Demonstration damage to a laughing stock... let's not be bias and have a little advantage on genetic Side with the Skill of Mandragora Howling which makes your casting time shit... If and only if it hits will have the chance of the gene to attack but wait … we also have this so called equip change in which you can change your equip to your desired one and situational, Pro and Intelligent players knows how to utilize this.. have an immune Set and there Bye bye Acid demonstration and say Hello "Missing" Acid Demonstration. Sura has Pneuma that can be used on the user's advantage so ehem :< Bye bye Acid Demonstration Hello Miss Pneuma..Can be remove with crazy weeds with a 3 sec after cast delay don't worry Pneuma is spammable so yes still.. Say Hello to Miss Peuma!!.Not to mention Ghostring Card which you know ... makes Acid demonstration a tickling sensation :) 

  • Conclusion: Elemental Counters doesn't apply on Sura since a Sura can change Armor Element and Attack element to the user's advanctage.

6. Attacking Counters and Defensive counters

  • Ok in this Section we will be Discussing Attacking Counters and Defensive counters for Sura in which we are going to divide into two sections.

             1.Magic Attack and Defense

             2.Physical Attack and Defense (Melle vs Long Range)

                       ->Magic Attack and Defense

                             +Basically if you have 98% and got hit with a damage with 1.5m(Sample Variable Damage) the outcome damage is going to be 30k, I consulted to a friend in regards with the maximum HP of a Sura that can be attained with full buffs and food (Including Gemstones and Star Stones) is on average of 320k- 340k, but wait .. the Underlying question there is .. Will a 1.5m Magic Damage can be attained using Full attack build , the answer is Yes but another question that will come up is will the attacker survive 1 Gates of Hell ? that's for you to think of that and congratulation on sacrificing all your defense just to make a 30k damage on a 330k HP Sura , let's put that Magical Attacker as a Ninja , Oboro to be specific an Oboro can deal that damage easily and it is indeed spamable, a Sura cannot hit a Good Ninja who uses Cicada Skin.. uhh ohh or can he.... a Sura can use Storm gust scroll to freeze oboro rendering a ninja useless not to mention if a Ninja can maintain Cicada Skin (Skill that dodges Physical attack) with a Machine Gun Gates of hell...A ninja has 2 choices Spam Cicada skin to dodge or attack and get wrecked, I hope that ninja can cast that 1.5m damage 10 times in 1 sec hahaha and of coarse we have this so called "Potions" to heal us back :) Sura can change armor element and can use elemental resist to lower down the damage as well, good luck ninja :)

                         ->Physical Attack and Defense (Melle vs Long Range)

                                +Melle Physical Attack ? Pfffft you must be kidding Sura don't care about this, go ahead and chase a Sura Body Relocating in the map, chase like a dog haha :). Long Range Physical Attack... mehh no problem hello miss Pnuema, Sharpshooting rangers Goodluck have a Good aim with that 3m damage Sharpshooting damage that will deal 60k damage on a 340k HP sura and pffft Sura Just pass and you saw your character kissing the floor hahaaha The only one who can deal a good amount of damage on a Sura with long range physical is a Picky Peck Doram (yeah Lower down that Sura's HP and increase it's attack :) ) but yeah Let me introduce you again to Miss Peuma also I'll give you a Goodluck in aiming on a dancing Body Relocation Sura 

  • Conclusion: Sura Excels in Defense regardless if it is Magical Attack, Melle or Long Range Physical 

 

👉Overall Conclusion to the Matter : Sura Currently Excels in Mobility, Equipment Damage Reduction, Damage dealing, Elemental access, Skill Advantage , Skill counters, Crowd Control. Not So Overpowered? It's for you guys to decide.The Reason why I Titled this suggestion as Nerf Sura and Skill "Gates of Hell" is Simple, Sura is powered in PvP matters but what makes a Sura OVER Powered is the Skill Gates of Hell, Gates of Hell has Elemental access, Ignores Demi Human Reduction, Increases damage base on Character HP (Which makes a Stalemate on other job "Make a Damage on a Sura and a Sura wil make a bigger Damage") No skill catalyst and it has a very accessible requirement.

Suggestions:

    >Make Gates of Hell Forced Neutral or have it accept Demi Human reduction - This will make Gates of Hell just like any other skill making it balance if it accepts demi human reductions then it's balance if it doesn't then have it forced neutral for players to have a defense on it

   >Have the Gates of Hell Sphere Consumption back to 5 instead of 2 - This will Make the Machine Gun Gates of Hell a normal Hitting Skill and have it's Hitting Limit

   >Have the Rising Dragon Buff removed when a Sura Got dispelled and increase it's after cast delay - Mehh.. It's a Buff ...have it remove when Dispelled it's Normal, Buffs "Should" be dispelled when dispelled 

   >Disable the Use of Gentle Touch Energy Gain in composite of Gentle Touch Revitalize - This skill combination is OP it's like increasing the damage of a bullet while having another bullet....

    >If possible have the Gates of Hell damage based on User's Attack (this will remove the Overpower of a Sura not needing an attacking gear to deal a high damage, this will result to the balance of Sura's attack and defense gear), also it's best to limit the use of Sealed MVP cards to one (Like the Normal MvP Cards) as it removes that balance of Equipment's in game Specially Sealed MvP cards are Expensive which other player thinks of having lot of Sealed MvP cards a Pay to win in Battleground 1 and Normal WoE. 

 

PS: If you have any violent reaction in regards with the examples kindly put them down on the comments, our Kind GM Lai will hear you as well, also this is just a suggestion if you want to add your suggestion as well kindly put it in the comments if you find the suggestion annoying as a Sura user , I just simply stated what I think and what other's might be thinking.. If there are any corrections you are free to correct me as I'm not expert in all Ragnarok Jobs, if you have additions in the Job examples you can include them in your comments.

 

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-100
 

No to nerf sura

 

sura has been nerfed many times in the past

 

if anything the jRO gears make all classes OP. Not just sura

 

you can easily make a case for SC RANGER AND RK and many other classes

 

SC for example can one shot masquerade all classes easily with jRO items and render any class useless

 

RK can do significant high damage to 98% Demi redux with current items

 

 

Ranger Cluster with Gray boots ignores demi redux completely and do significantly high damage too as u can place 3 bombs at once

 

 

unable to chase sura is also wrong, with certain skills its definitely possible

 

if you wanna complain about mechanics complain to the developers and not just nerf to your liking

 

and for your information GoH can be reduced significantly If you know how

 

and what you are also wrong about is... "Sura does not require any gears"... the suras doing high damage most likely invested in high end gears to do that damage, which can still be countered... if you complain about this then complain about other classes as well

 

-100 to this

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1 hour ago, God said:

-100
 

No to nerf sura

 

sura has been nerfed many times in the past

 

if anything the jRO gears make all classes OP. Not just sura

 

you can easily make a case for SC RANGER AND RK and many other classes

 

SC for example can one shot masquerade all classes easily with jRO items and render any class useless

 

RK can do significant high damage to 98% Demi redux with current items

 

 

Ranger Cluster with Gray boots ignores demi redux completely and do significantly high damage too as u can place 3 bombs at once

 

 

unable to chase sura is also wrong, with certain skills its definitely possible

 

if you wanna complain about mechanics complain to the developers and not just nerf to your liking

 

and for your information GoH can be reduced significantly If you know how

 

and what you are also wrong about is... "Sura does not require any gears"... the suras doing high damage most likely invested in high end gears to do that damage, which can still be countered... if you complain about this then complain about other classes as well

 

-100 to this

I understand your point of view but if you did read carefully , we cannot just miss the point of the one who wrote the report in regards with Ranger bomb, and RK with Significant amount of damage with 98% i dont agree with that. Rubick has completly pointed out exact values such as 1.5m being reduced to 30k only. Rubick also pointed out the fact that if you want to make that 1.5m damage you need full attack build and if you do, your damage reduction is going to suffer . Rubick also pointed out that if you did equip a full reduce dmage from GoH you will just be a punching bag and i agree on that.. i agree on you but not fully, it's like 90% agree to rubick with that precise information

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You can reduce goh significantly too 😛
 

if u want that damage on goh u need full hp build too otherwise its weak af

 

every class has its weaknesses

 

the statement "if you equip a full reduce chara you will be a punching ag" goes for all classes not just sura, as a matter of fact that applies especially to ranger and Rk, the damage is insanely high

1 hour ago, KittyCathy said:

I understand your point of view but if you did read carefully , we cannot just miss the point of the one who wrote the report in regards with Ranger bomb, and RK with Significant amount of damage with 98% i dont agree with that. Rubick has completly pointed out exact values such as 1.5m being reduced to 30k only. Rubick also pointed out the fact that if you want to make that 1.5m damage you need full attack build and if you do, your damage reduction is going to suffer . Rubick also pointed out that if you did equip a full reduce dmage from GoH you will just be a punching bag and i agree on that.. i agree on you but not fully, it's like 90% agree to rubick with that precise information

 

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Issue regarding on Sura had been debated from long time ago and till now... such a unique class ever & after.

Regarding on Cluster Bomb Ranger... it is easy to counter, the key is... Cluster Bomb damage only can be totally reduce by Elemental reduction... 300k~400k damage of Cluster Bomb can become less than 10k damage with elemental reduction combo... but not by demi-human reduction.

 

PS: now can go wear elemental redux gear/item and rect the Saga Greed Ranger in PVP.

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4 hours ago, Nibbus Phyrox said:

Issue regarding on Sura had been debated from long time ago and till now... such a unique class ever & after.

Regarding on Cluster Bomb Ranger... it is easy to counter, the key is... Cluster Bomb damage only can be totally reduce by Elemental reduction... 300k~400k damage of Cluster Bomb can become less than 10k damage with elemental reduction combo... but not by demi-human reduction.

 

PS: now can go wear elemental redux gear/item and rect the Saga Greed Ranger in PVP.

Can be reduced yes but then you are prey to other skills and attacks

 

as for sura, same shit

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1 hour ago, God said:

Can be reduced yes but then you are prey to other skills and attacks

 

as for sura, same shit

It is because you didn't discover enough the Cluster Bomb skill mechanism... Cluster Bomb is such a skill that have a number of handicapness/lackness. Its such a short AOE skill and need to cast together with Detonator skill to activate/blow up the bomb. Plus... that skill have so much delay which Its delay cannot be reduce by any "after cast delay" reduction gear/item such as kiel, applause & so on. so, its good enough you can tank even 1 time of their bomb... which mean you don't really need to wear fully elemental reduction gear/item as long you can tank at least 1 or 2 time of their bomb... then quickly kill the ranger... since ranger is one of class that lack of defend/escape capability. so, by that... at the same time you still can wear demi-human or long range reduction gear/item to redux their other skills & attacks damage.

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7 hours ago, Lai said:

Where is the "poll" in this topic`?

I added the Poll for the Topic, I apologize for not adding it in the first place, it's my first time posting in suggestion page.

As for the Ranger Bomb Cluster Build I believe I have discussed the matter in such a way in which readers will be able to understand that the advantage of the Cluster Bomb build equalizes it's disadvantage making it an optimal build for PvP rangers (The damage of Cluster bomb is high but the aiming is hard since the bomb is required to be placed on a fix location in which players can avoid and Thanks you for adding that the Cluster Bomb build can be reduce with elemental property)

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I added 2 more options for the Poll for those who think Sura is just OP because of Sealed Cards, and to make no changes on Sura henceforth, for the Option "No Adjustment Needed" I will be expecting those who vote to provide an instance in which Sura is not OP on the said Points of Matter , as mention if you didn't provide an instance I will take your vote as you do not want to change anything on Sura because you are part of the group who exploits it's Overpowered setup. I didn't make a thorough investigation about this matter and I didn't waste my time and effort to create a 5 page document just for you to say "No Adjustment Needed" without you providing a proper reason, Please do understand ...

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4 minutes ago, Prophet said:

Bump gambler seal from 40% to 60% 

Easy solution, without major changes ^^

The Implications are invalid, I believe I was able to explain a Variable Magic Damage Value vs Sura's Defense , another 20% of resistance doesn't hold a chance to Reduce Damage from a raging Machine Gun GoH, example of Invalid Implication. Warlock vs Sura, should a Warlock used a Gambler set and Full redux with 98% player damage reduction a damage of 1.5m cannot be done, if indeed it is the damage to a 98% Reduction Sura is going to be 30k only on 340k HP Sura, implication of the same Sura damage will be Gates of Hell bypass Demi Human and Has Gentle Touch Cure to remove Warlock Crowd Control , Warlock is going to be a butchered. The Detailed explanation is provided so thus providing such solution to Increase Gambler Seal resistance from 40% to 60% is not going to help, I did try to think of it but as I mention..The Implications are invalid.

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29 minutes ago, Anonymouse said:

sura are pretty strong with end game gears if u want op sura farm or buy items ^^ its not about they got big damage they work or buy those items to become strong 

Reading might help you a lot.. I did cite some examples of gameplay, not just because of equipment advantage. Some examples that I provided is a Magic type vs Sura, in which If Magic Type uses Full damage reduction vs a Full damage reduction Sura, the Magic User will only inflict low damage, not to mention that a Full reduction Sura can do 98% damage reduction, So the magic user is just going to be butchered and if the Magic User tries to do Full Damage with a damage of 1.5m(Variable Damage Value) the damage that can get through is 30k on a 340k HP Sura, Sura on the other hand can deal High damage output in Full damage reduction build due to the skill Gates of Hell which doesn't require a high Attack mechanism plus, the Magic User who "might" have the same 98% Damage reduction will have no effect, given the fact that the Skill Gates  of Hell bypass Player damage reduction.

PS: For those who will Comment their insights or suggestion please use at least a few of your time not just to "Read" but to "UNDERSTAND" as well. Also for those who voted "No Adjustment Needed" Kindly comment down below your insights why you think Sura is balanced and doesn't need any nerf, so that you guys will be able to enlighten us that Sura and Gates of Hell is indeed balanced. I'm considering those who voted "No Adjustment Needed" without a proper reason, why they think Sura is balanced, as those people who exploit (Verb make full use of and derive benefit from) Sura as being Overpowered, specially some players in LimitRO send me Private message on Discord that those who voted "No Adjustment Needed" are those Sura users that are known to be Overpowered in-game I don't know who they are, a trusted source just told me.I would just like to repeat do not just  "Read" but try to "UNDERSTAND" as well.

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kRO already made 2 patch for skill improvement updates for sura I hope that's final one , right now you may feel sura is OP to this server but its not , you just a proper mind set / knowledge / gears / skill for you to beat sura class that's also the reason why I suggested to lowering it down the demi/player redux to 98% for you to have a chance to kill your opponent not just sura  , @Lai I think its better to implement the skill improvement for other class like GX, RK ,Gene and performers for them to see which one is most OP /rice

"Gene is a No match to sura" seriously ? don't make any kind assumption you just need more practice/ get a good gears.

Edited by Cj
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2 minutes ago, Cj said:

kRO already made 2 patch for skill improvement updates for sura I hope that's final one , right now you may feel sura is OP to this server but its not , you just a proper mind set / knowledge / gears / skill for you to beat sura class that's also the reason why I suggested to lowering it down the demi/player redux to 98% for you to have a chance to kill your opponent not just sura  , @Lai I think its better to implement the skill improvement for other class like GX, RK ,Gene and performers for them to see which one is most OP /rice

I would like to know more about this Mind Set / Knowledge / Gears / Skill that you might have in your mind. Can you provide some examples in which a Warlock or a Rune Knight (Except:Death Bound Skill, which can be removed within 2 seconds, which can be easily canceled by Sura's Skill : "Cursed Circle") can fight on Par with Sura, I believed I did provide some examples regarding with that matter in section 6. Attacking Counters and Defensive counters ?

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no.1 thing sura becomes op depends on its user 2nd is item overall it can be beaten by decent opponent also just need to be faster to counter them i guess unless change goh damage formula will do but depends on gm lai lets hope for the best

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1 minute ago, Anonymouse said:

no.1 thing sura becomes op depends on its user 2nd is item overall it can be beaten by decent opponent also just need to be faster to counter them i guess unless change goh damage formula will do but depends on gm lai lets hope for the best

I hope so.. cause if not.. I will be abusing it's Overpowered skill as well on the coming days... :) and other might do it as well :) I just don't want to see a Battleground / PvP / WoE with all Suras Fighting 😐

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2 hours ago, Rubick said:

I would like to know more about this Mind Set / Knowledge / Gears / Skill that you might have in your mind. Can you provide some examples in which a Warlock or a Rune Knight (Except:Death Bound Skill, which can be removed within 2 seconds, which can be easily canceled by Sura's Skill : "Cursed Circle") can fight on Par with Sura, I believed I did provide some examples regarding with that matter in section 6. Attacking Counters and Defensive counters ?

yes you provide some examples but it does mean that you can kill the skilled suras with those skills practically the example that was given are commonly used especially for newbie ,  why should I tell you? you need to figure to yourself , I cannot simply spoon feeding to you ? We spent our time for us to identify how to counter classes/skills .

Edited by Cj
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1 hour ago, Cj said:

I think its better to implement the skill improvement for other class like GX, RK ,Gene and performers for them to see which one is most OP

sorry to sidetrack from original topic, but do these come before or after lv200 patch?

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