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Lai

RNG Random Number Generator

Do you think LimitRO has too much RNG or not?  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think LimitRO has too much RNG or not?

    • Yes
      23
    • No
      7


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Hey guys.

Yea, you get the idea.

What do you think I can do better for the server when it come to RNG?

 

Tell me specific feature, that you think could lessen RNG and why?

 

 

RNG is cancer we all agree, because "Adam got Gold with 1 try, but Lisa tried 1000 times, didnt get any gold"...

but then again, its needed in MMO for the longertive it can give in matter of gameplay.

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My problem with the rng in Limit ro is that items like 2177.pngShield of Death [1], 19306.pngHeart Card in Mouth, etc are locked behind lootboxes. Some of these items are needed in certain builds and forces people to either try to gamble until they get it, possibly getting addicted to it, or buy from other players for 40vp minimum ( though lets be honest, its going to be 50vp+). Another gripe I have with Lro's rng are the deep mine items. Collecting all those items just to have a 70% chance to fail does not feel good. If those items are just too good, increase the requirements of those items making it harder to make them, don't give us a 70% chance that everything we just did will go down the drain due to bad rng. Finally, the method that the class gemstones were released, not having a way to choose which one you want while also being able to get duplicates, is not for me. When I use my money, I would prefer to get what I want.

I am fine however with cosmetic items like ce being inside loot boxes, as they don't add much to the game.

These are just my opinions on the matter.

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if u lessen the rng with the lootable items, may destroy the server. most things here are still farmable without restriction except instances. but still if everyone gets it, i will rain in the market and might result to people farming less then they get bored.

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IMO, RNG is important to make certain items not too common, thus adding their value.
But at least, for the items that we don't want (example those class boxes), can we get higher recycle compensation such as 100m zenies :D.

But again, i think RNG is important to make certain item / enchants exclusive.

 

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I think we do have a lot of RNG when it comes to cash items, but it's mostly fine when we are talking about non-cash items.

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+ 1 With Neville and Seph, 

I think when its cash related should not be based on RNG cuz newbies gonna say with Pay to Win server which we all know is not true (If you played long enough). 

But for non-ash item/endgame items, i think having RNG is the way to go else everyone gets the same equips and 1 day after new update everyone has already. 

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tl;dr RNG is needed but I wanna do instances (not forestwave) multiple times rather than spam opening my egg scroll or slotting 2k items for RNG on top of that. RNG in instances still gets me other stuff so I feel like I got something out of it and less discouraging.

RNG on the RNG: Needing to slot 10 items at a 10% (think its 10 for vesper cores) chance and then having a 30% chance on top of that to even make the item. We have this with 2 items via limit island. I will not ever attempt this since I don't feel like random having 2-3 of the cores needing like 40 attempts which has already happened to me on this server. Could care less bout the fail chance overall on attempting for the item itself on the island. This just feels excessive more than anything

RNG cash loot box: Class stones: Most of the stones are w/e but some actual enable multiple build options like Sniper Mid (or whatever the sharpshooting one is) due to lack of other shadow gears here, a couple others are good, most are nothing too special vs other gemstones we have. So far with this I've seen screens of one your helpers even opening 24 boxes and not getting one of the stones wanted from the epic box. When I asked them what happened I already heard others dropped 80 vips and still can't even get their full set (maybe half of it at most?). If I'm donating to the server I wanna actually get something out of it, not a chance. I got irl casino's for that to rip me off lol. Endgame players: np. Rest: goodluck!

RNGegg: How many Egg Scrolls do we need really vs how many more are we going to get? I'm personally getting tired of opening Egg Scrolls and not getting the item I want in there after 900 Mad Bunny scrolls only to hear someone gets a Heart Card in Mouth after like 12 Invis Eggs that cost even more(at the time). Bounties take a long time to grind that many merit badges. The Eve Natalia changes were welcome addition, but even that has a minor rng game (20-40 merit). Forest Wave is a blessing but holy damn am I tired of doing that for hours and getting nothing from it.

Give some attention to other features that haven't seen life. Bounty Boards A and S give those hammers out for -months- and have no use still, achievement system could be fleshed out way more (heard its currently impossible to even get the max ranking) possible to add timers to instances like how Faceworm has it, rewards for people with best times at end of month etc.. Old version of headgear maker made people go out and farm more things, can some future stuff be added to this? It helped the market too by adding more options for people. 

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wow. everyone has good point. i don't even need to say my piece about it hehe.

i just have problem with current job stones. putting a 20pcs+ of different job stones in a box worth 5-10cp will really burn up ALOT of cp of players. IF RNGesus is not on your side that day, u'll end up opening 20+ boxes and still can't get the job stone u want. T_T). then u need to get 4 pcs for the job stones u want to get a complete set. these stones are not even worth it to sell in NPC bcoz they only cost 10-12m z. @[email protected]

i suggest making all job stones available in cash shop individually and price it same as lv3 gemstones (which is 50cp) instead.

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RNG by itself is not inherently bad.

RNG gives people the sense of progression and the thrill of finding a new rare item. What would be the boss cards if they had a 100% drop?

However

RNG is the best when it gives the sense of progression. That no matter, what the random outcome was, you will feel like you have achieved something.

Sadly, some of the RNG that we encounter is not like that. For me the moment like that personally was my tormented quest for boitata armor. Bounty board, tickets, rinse and repeat. Day after day, knowing that it does not depend on me. Only on the random number generator. I did not progress. I did not become better. I did not encounter more challenging foes. This was breaking the flow of the game.

I agree with Eshu on the three key features:

RNG in crafting is a bit too much. A chance on top of chance. I suggested long time a go, but making a bit more costly alternative that gives the items with 100% guarantee could work

RNG Eggs: The big problem with them that some of the very viable equipment is locked behind the RNG. Mad Bunnies, for example, are a staple of many classes. It can get very frustrating when a newer player hopes to get one and will have to spend months on instance (Forest) that they otherwise don't like. If they won't quit before that.

RNG in cash shop: Star and Deco stones are fine. They are aesthetic/minor bonus. But class stones are a part of many cool builds on kRO. I feel like locking them behind the RNG is sort-of P2W. Want a good sharpshooter ranger? Better cough up VIPs.


Those are my thoughts. I feel that there are a bit too much RNG currently and I would love to reduce it.

  • Like 8

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4 hours ago, Neville said:

Heh, i was the one that spent 80 vips. It's fine though, i went ahead knowing how RNG works @[email protected] Too bad i could not get what i wanted, but that's life.

Technically speaking: you weren't one of the people I was thinking of when I made the post lol I did hear about yours after I think. I think everyone doing it understands the level of chance behind this which is part of why more people are angrier than before, its just asking players to do this for items to unlock/make builds viable is heading towards p2w. The point I was trying to address is that of appeal to gaining/keeping players not of a person's understanding of the basis.

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I have read all and many points taken.

One thing i want to address about the new Gemstone Boxes RNG is

Many may noticed that LimitRO doesn't have many Cash content to offer, we have:

  • wing
  • aura
  • usable
  • stones

In order for our server to maintain it's cash reduce and donation income, and also NOT to flowerish the server with all types of Cash content, I decided after not adding cash content for so long... that RNG was the best way to keep the cash rolling.

Star stone box is the BEST income for LimitRO, no kidding, the best....

And now comes the gemstones RNG will keep us busy for awhile.

Why you should NOT be angry about the gemstone RNG is

  • It offers all stones equal chances
  • If you didnt get the stone you wanted, you can always use it on another job, char slot 20+.
  • Thinking that the server won't be adding any other cash stuff for a long time ahead of time.
  • It's NOT a must have gemstone, the original gemstones are universal and can very much cope with the new ones in one or another way.

Ofcourse, that's as much as I can explain to and hope some will understand my perpective as admin.

 

 

 

Will do some hard thinking and progress with all the other brilliant comments made by the rest, godamn, I missed so much, I should have made this topic earlier...

I will think hard, and discuss with team and then come up with a disclosed plan, this has to be fixed pretty fast, it looks pretty bad...

 

 

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Tbh, if I wanted to walk through RNG hell, there are plenty of other servers(or games) I could be playing.

I preferred this server because it did not seem too RNG/donation heavy at first, and the community was still decent.

 

Like others have said, I would honestly prefer a steady progression to building characters as well. But I do understand sometimes you need to implement a chance of failure(just...don't go too overboard like Eshu's example).

However, please try to avoid adding that chance of failure for gear/class stones in cash shop. I'm fine with star stones and costumes as they are just extra.

Class stones, however, can help some classes/builds solve the issues people have with playing them. IE. Fixing cast times, delays, etc. that would keep that build from being playable in its current state. There are also some class stones that give really good boosts to certain skills that may make it either viable, or even make something already powerful even stronger

Honestly, probably should have implemented class stones somewhere else not in the cash shop.

 

Also, please try not to suggest someone make another class just because they didn't get the one for their class @[email protected] People main their classes for a reason. Yes, majority of RO players do have multiple characters/classes in general, but they still have their favorites. Being told to play something else just feels...wrong.

I get that you are trying to make the best of it but it kinda hurts to see that.

 

Anyway, I have 2 main suggestions other than that

1. I would suggest removing the breaking of CEs upon changing gemstones. This allows a lot more builds and changeability to open up without trying to ruin people's cuteness factor. Completely fine with getting charged for it as zeny sink if you wish, just let us keep our CEs.

For instance, let's say I had 4x Destruction + 4x Almighty gemstones, and then 1 of the class gemstones that I wanted. Now I'm stuck with certain choices

    - Run 4x Destruction 4x Almighty (previous build prior to update - disregard class stones to allow full changeability)

    - Run 1 Class gemstone + 3x of one gemstones, 4x of the other (which would essentially make these CE more specific to that class - transferring hat to another character isn't as effective)

    - Run only 1 class gemstone + 4x of Destruction/Almighty (lowers damage output but allows you to not ruin your CEs and can transfer hats between your characters)

 

2. I would suggest we could add more CE into new egg scrolls and etc for cash shop if you really want to try to get more donations. There's plenty of cute things out there that we could try.

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13 hours ago, LaLaurie said:

@Noein Safe unenchanting feature has been added along with the new Gemstones, you can check it at Mato Mato. Of course it requires a payment to save the CE.image.png.65454dc481ac40d793e20dcc9b060543.png

That is a slight step forward, yes. But that is a side option and the feature that breaks your CE still remains.

Also someone still has to pay real money for it if we really don't want to break our CE.

 

What I was trying to ask was complete removal of the feature, and charging us zeny(not VIPS) to allow people more customization and changeability to play what they want and how they want. Especially considering that the new class stones are RNG

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@Noein Do you play in LimitRO?

It feels like you are out of touch...

1 VIP ingame can easily be bought from other players for 150-160m zeny.

If you consider your CE is more valueable than 5x 150-160m, then use the feature.

If it's less than that value, then destroy it and easily obtain the same.

Everything under 5 VIP coins ingame, is not hard to be farmed.

 

Ontopic:

Progression is under work, first step we made yesterday was the increase of Slotting chances, to lessen the RNG in there.

Also we found out few bugs in the script were the success chance of many items were lower than mentioned on our wiki.

On incoming changes, you can read more details.

 

I will keep this post updated as we make more progress towards lessen RNG.

Do keep in mind that many item may lose some "value" in short term, but in long term, they will gain their purposes back, as more people will get the hope to "get them" therefore the demands will go up as well as the supply goes up.

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My sugestion on the rng of crafting equipments is to give back some % of the material (depending on the failure chance) if the craft fail. This will keep the rng factor but lessen the pain.

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On 5/15/2019 at 4:16 AM, Lai said:

Do you play in LimitRO?

It feels like you are out of touch...

1 VIP ingame can easily be bought from other players for 150-160m zeny.

Not cool @Lai /??

Vips are around 170-180-190m because of price spike/people spiking the price for their own benefit and being more needed for our new super RNG features on cash shop, plus not many selling them now due to low influx of players compared to past years

It would be okay to correct the user but not to straight up low insult him because not many have the time to "Stay in touch", which is probably going to be one less player on the server, making this place less unpopulated than it is now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to topic.

Been playing for 5+ years now so hope this counts

The biggest RNG part on this server imo is deepmines and the new RNG boxes

Deepmines giving access to equipment giving access to more builds/character effectivity/etc, is locked behind RNG going by that you need to do tens of tries on slotting rare drops or farm for really low drop % equipment that is really spending too much time ingame if you make it by yourself just so that someone can buy it at a low price

(Considering it is way easier to buy things than to make them most of the times)

On the new Cash Shop Feature that got implemented recently, it has TOO much RNG factor going by that we were all expecting to be just one type of stone (Being there both Type I and Type II)

So instead of a healty rng for the stone that you want that would be 1/12 chance, it became 1/24  (Or even higher) to get your stone and then being it not the one you wanted for your build instead

The best way to overcome this would be separating the Type I and Type II stones by making separate boxes for the Type II stones 

There wouldn't be much more of a loss in gain but probably a gain on sales because people would be more encouraged to buy the boxes being that they will get their own class stone of the type they want with a better rate and the type they are going for while having the option for the second type box if they want to play an alternate build

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway.

Just my two cents here as a bit old player in here now, i think if these changes would be good for the server in general and keep sales going on a healthy basis being mindful of the players too which is something that is getting forgotten a bit, not asking for everything being spoonfed like all the commodities newbies have but making veterans alike have a good time playing and not a stressful stay on the game considering if you have longer staying players = more active donators and more money for your wallet

Keep it in mind 'kay?~ /ok

 

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The new stones are definitely too rng.. If it were to be separated based on 1st class (swordsman box, mage box, etc) that would be awesome. In terms of some of the newer gears, rng to craft is one thing but locking it behind PvP zones thus allowing PvP farmers to determine the price seems silly. My 2 cents. 

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SUGGESTING TO HAVE TRADING OF NEW GEMSTONES.

Example:

Any 5 gemstones can be traded to 1 Gemstone box of your choice. (Top, Mid, low) 

Any 5 Epic Gemstone can be traded to 1 Epic Gemstone Box.  

This is better than having to sell in npc for 10m or getting stucked in your storage 5x ea.  

 

@Lai please consider as this will help lessen RNG.  

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Yep that pvp thing is a lazy way to earn right now. I saw some players that are threatening others that they won't let them farm inside pvp while they're in and kill them on sight. Imo those rewards w/o restrictions to kill-resu-repeat farming didnt make the pvp popular again, it just made players get inside to farm something. 

I guess Lai is pretty stressed out bcoz of this issue that's why he said that to Noein.

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I have mentioned many times on the Gemstone boxes, nothing will be changed to those boxes, it's already out, a lot of players have already spent their shares.

It was designed this way on purpose and exactly how it is, and the effect that came is exactly what I aim for.

 

As for other ingame content, is what we are discussing as of now, so far I have come to the following:

  • There will be a separate Deepmines NPC which will allow you to 100% craft the item for 3x amount of materials.
    • To remove the RNG on RNG and super RNG on this case.
  • I will increase the chances of dropping the valueable item from egg scrolls ^^
    • To lower the RNG amongs the eggs. 
  • FAW, AAW, GW, Kirin will be sold by Iris for 7k/7k/10k/10k LMB each.
    • TO removed the RNG on RNG
  • Slot enchant = checked

Are there more that we can think of for the next upcoming MT? hmmmm

 

About @Noein case, I was a bit annoyed and stressed during the time i replied, I appologize.

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Enchanting system, Specifically bio5 and hugel race. Having spent 4k 25273.pngMysterious Medal on the racing hat, only to have it stay a lvl 1 enchant is a huge slap on the face. Also its hard enough as is to get a lvl 5 bio lab enchant, let alone get it to 10. I suggest to either up the chances of the enchant upgrades, or to have a method that makes it so that failure no longer downgrades them.

About the Loot boxes, instead of changing the current boxes, why not add new ones? There's a demand for a different kind of loot box, with less rng, if the forums are to go by. That or have an npc that buys the unwanted stones for 50-80% of their cp value. Let us play the game to recuperate the remaining 50-20% of the cp value lost by the current in game methods like events, instances, party bounties, etc.

Edited by Sephylon

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  • There will be a separate Deepmines NPC which will allow you to 100% craft the item for 3x amount of materials.
    • To remove the RNG on RNG and super RNG on this case.
      ^ so for example, to make a celine brooch at 100% success craft, i gonna need 30pcs slotted vesper core 01? hmm
  • I will increase the chances of dropping the valueable item from egg scrolls ^^
    • To lower the RNG amongs the eggs. 
      ^ this is a positive action towards the RNG on eggs.
  • FAW, AAW, GW, Kirin will be sold by Iris for 7k/7k/10k/10k LMB each.
    • TO removed the RNG on RNG
      ^ i rather have the current way of getting wings from armory box at the cost of 2 lucky tickets per try than this. it will need players to do mind numbing forest wave and bounty mission over and over and over again for at least a week just to make a single 7k worth merit badge of a wing. >.<
  • Slot enchant = checked
    ^ positive action also.

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