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Farlhart

The Current State of Silk PvP and Limit RO.

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This thread is for all of Limit RO to read, digest and educate themselves over the decisions Lai and his team has made. Many of which we're haphazardly made with little to no thought or reasoning behind them. This is for YOU Lai.

I have been here since January of last year and I like many others, have witness all of Lai's doing since then. Those who don't know me, I'm FarlhartFarlhart.jpg.fe33497e136adcef777d689710e57223.jpg

I main a Rebellion class, and i specialize in Silk PvP settings. Do pay attention as the subjects laid before you outline many core problems that go unaddressed. This will be long...

Recently, Tierra Gloria expansion has been released on this server. However, with the recent updates made by Lai and his team, most of the items are banned from Silk play! WITH NO REASON TO BACK THOSE DECISION UP. This list https://www.limitro.com/wiki/tutorial/17-feature/59-silk-mode 

will show every item that is banned from this game mode, many of which severely impacts game play and character balance. Rebellions we're especially hard hit by these changes, namely with the new guns that we're released. Let's take a look at these items and talk about the actual reason why they should NOT be banned in the first place.

My first examples will be comparisons between Calf guns and the Tierra Gloria guns. Just for those who do not understand weapon level and refine:
Level 3 weapons = +5 Attack per refine  (@+7 = +35 Attack)

Level 4 weapons = +7 Attack per refine (@+7 = +49 Attack)

also note, while not yet implimented. All of the Tierra Gloria guns are suppose to enchant-able at Malangdo (@go 35) with the maxium expected enchant of either:
Fighting Spirit 8 (+27 attack, +5 hit per enchantment)

Expert Archer 6 (+12% Range Damage)

which two enchants per weapon is the maximum being: +54 Attack/+10 Hit, +24% Range Damage or +27 Attack/+5 Hit and 12% Range Damage.

Tierra Gloria weapons are stronger when properly enchanted but within reason, in comparison to other items when looked at, class-to-class.

Firstly, Calf Death Adder versus Dark Rose:

CDeathAdderVDarkRose.jpg.a90238a708e5f2bd5e205de03d8e50e1.jpg

@ +7: Calf Death Adder offers +219 Attack, 15% attack speed, 15% Range Damage compared to Dark Rose which offers +185 Attack, 10% Attack Speed, 15% Range Damage

Notice that because of Dark Rose's base damage and weapon level. At the same refine-it already deals less damage. Now lets throw on enchants.

FS8 Double = +239 attack, which yes is higher than Death Adder. You lose out on not having Range damage enchants instead.

EA6 Double = 39% Range Damage but the weapon is still +185 attack in comparison.

EA6+FS8 = 27% Range Damage/+212 Attack which seems pretty balanced if you look at this over-all.

Next is Calf King Cobra versus Finisher:

CKingCobraVFinisher.jpg.840835a2c1ce955fc54b7d58864be17e.jpg

@ +7: Calf King Cobra offers +279 Attack, 15% attack speed, 15% Range Damage compared to Finisher which offers +235 Attack, 15% Range Damage, +30% Anti-Material Blast/Mass Spiral Damage

Same case as the first example in difference in damage. The core difference being that Finisher is geared to increasing a Specific Skill damage. Again, same argument in stats for Finisher.

FS8 Double = +289 attack, no additional Long Range Damage.

EA6 Double = 39% Range Damage but the weapon is still +235 attack in comparison.

EA6+FS8 = 27% Range Damage/+247 Attack which is also balanced.

Calf Diamondback versus Burning Rose:

CDiamondbackVBurningRose.jpg.f6f3cd30ede961049962eef3e028e157.jpg

@ +7: Calf Diamondback offers +269 Attack, +2 Dexterity, 15% Range Damage, +20% Round Trip Damage compared to Burning Rose which offers +235 Attack, 15% Range Damage, +30% Fire Rain Damage

Note that neither gun is good at specializing in the other's main damage boosted stat. Round Trip is not as strong with Burning Rose as Fire Rain is not at strong with Calf Diamondback.

The stats with a properly enchanted Burning Rose:

FS8 Double = +289. Again, no additional Long Range Damage.

EA6 Double = 39% Range Damage but the weapon is still +235 attack in comparison.

EA6+FS8 = 27% Range Damage/+247 Attack.

Calf Anaconda versus Dustfire:

CAnacondaVDustfire.jpg.efa04d9c56a0f18fdb974991dec87bba.jpg

These weapons deserve the most attention as they are tied to the main kill skill for Rebellions- Slug Shot. A skill heavily criticized by the Ragnarok community.

@ +7: Calf Anaconda offers +244 Attack, 2% Max SP, 15% Range Damage, +20% Banishing Buster Damage compared to Dustfire which offers +235 Attack, Low Chance of Blind, +15% Shattering Storm Damage, (When combo'd with Armor-piercing Bullet) is suppose to grant +30% Range damage.

Dustfire stats when properly enchanted being:

FS8 Double = +289 attack, with possible +30% Range Damage /w Combo.

EA6 Double = +24% for a total of +54% Range Damage /w Combo.

EA6+FS8 = 12% Range Damage/+247 Attack, +30% Range Damage /w Combo

Dustfire is clearly stronger, however there is a switch that must take place and that is going from Purifying Bullets (Holy property) to Armor-piercing Bullets. Armor-piercing Bullets are Neutral property type bullets and thus makes you susceptible to things like Ghostring Card, Raydric Card and other Neutral property reducers. This weapon only serves to tie over the damage need to have this as an effective main skill to fulfill the role of a killer class.

My last example is Calf Python versus Revenge:

CpythonVRevenge.jpg.750141437b833325d47206fab15a1367.jpg

@ +7: Calf Python offers +409 Attack, 5% attack speed, 15% Range Damage compared to Revenge which offers +385 Attack, 20% Range Damage, +15% Dragon Tail Damage

Revenge is geared towards Dragon Tail for Silk, but notice the Calf Python does not help that damage at all. Dragon Tail NEEDS this boost as in comparison to  Slug Shot, the damage is lacking for the skill sacrifice you need to make in order to play it. While Revenge is stronger, Calf Python is just weak as a weapon choice in comparison.

FS8 Double = +439 attack, +20% Long Range Damage.

EA6 Double = 44% Range Damage but the weapon is still +385 attack in comparison.

EA6+FS8 = 32% Range Damage/+412 Attack which in comparison to say Dustfire, falls right in line with where it should be.

IN ALL THESE EXAMPLES, every weapon is limited and balanced by the +7 modifier. There is no reason why these should be on the Silk ban list. The only one that I can find is that Lai did not take into consideration ANY of these examples before hand and decided that these were "too OP" to his standards. THATS FALSE.

I also bring to your attention one card that has been unfairly exemplified to the rest.

Elvira Cardhttps://www.limitro.com/item/view/?id=4577

This is the only magic damage boosting card that has been banned compared to:

Mavka Card, Headless Mule Card, Dwigh Card!!

There is only one explanation I can think of and that was: Ninja's Lightning Jolt skill is too strong, instead of correcting it to a Single hit attack, its currently a x3 hit attack. So lai's lazy response was to not allow anything to boost it instead. Warlock's Soul Expansion and Chain Lightning are the next set of skills impacted by not allowing Elvira Card. Soul Expansion without Telekinesis Intense skill (5 minute cooldown), is weak on it's own. Chain Lightning isn't getting enough of a boost it needs to make using it as a main skill, impact-full. Varetyr Spear is a joke in silk. So I ask the community.

WHY IS THIS CARD BANNED???

Refer to this list for this next sectionhttps://www.limitro.com/wiki/tutorial/17-feature/59-silk-mode

 

All of these items, I also feel, do not deserve the ban list (notice it's not all of them.):
Every Battleground item Except Glorious and Avenger Gear.

All Illusion Weapons and Armor

Specific Deep Sea Gear:
Palace Guard Cap [1]
Isabella Brown Ear [1]
Flashy 2010 Indonesia Cap [1]
Sign Of Decade [1]
Gigantic Helm [1] 
(By being on the ban list, it negates the Gigantic set which in combination and comparison to what could be use, becomes specialized.)
Fancy Phantom Mask [1]
Clergy's Nursing Cap [1]
Kitsune Ear Bell Ribbon [1]
Sting's Silk Ribbon [1] 
(In comparison to use Demi-Human Damage reduction like Thara Frog, Handkerchief in Mouth, I Love Limit hat. The numbers are not as OP as it may appear.)
Sedora Hat [1]
Devil's Minion (You'd argue that Arch Bishops can abuse this, but in comparison, they have alot of their own healing abilities that surely surpass this.)
Imperial Feather (This being banned, impede the full bonus a Royal Guard can benefit from, using the set specializes the character in comparison to other combo's is not as OP as it may appear.)
Long Octopus Balloon (Just...Why not?)
Blood Sucker (Life steal is unreliable in PvP, the negatives also suck.)
New Wave Sunglasses (In comparison to choosing slotted sunglasses, the trade off is fair.)
Fragment of Love (Uninterruptible cast doesn't work in PvP anyway, Fix cast only prioritizes higher % worn, and +15% SP cost?)
Aegir Armor [1], Aegir Mantle [1], Aegir Shoes [1], Aegir Helm [1] (This set as a whole or individual items are not OP as it may appear, it's a step up from the Valkyrie set.)
Kardui's Robe [1] (At +7, the set bonus is not as OP as it may appear, additionally, you cannot benefit from the Angeling Combo.)
Evil Dragon Armor [1] (Because it has NO effect under +8.)
Iron Shield [1] (Because it has NO effect under +8.)
Immune Mantaeu [1], Immune Shoes [1] (@+7 in combination, set offers 30% Neutral damage reduction while receiving 13% more from other sources. Notice how Immune Shield Isn't Banned?)
Judgment Shoes (While the bonus list is long @+7 it fits neatly into a holy damaging build for Arch Bishops, you cannot take advantage of the bonus under +8, no Temporal Boots instead.)
Magical Ring [1] (Not as strong as Magician Gloves and rather fair for an accessory slot of choice.)
Imperial Ring [1](This being banned, impede the full bonus a Royal Guard can benefit from, using the set specializes the character in comparison to other combo's is not as OP as it may appear.)
Undine Spear [3] (Compared to Metal Stick or Posion Spear as alternatives.)
Octopus Knife [3] (Fish Dagger.)
Dofle Axe [2] (Fun weapon, not overly OP.)
Royal Bow [1] (It's Elven Bow with Race specific modifiers and the ability to choose different arrows.)
Book of Exorcism [2] (Magnus Exorcismus?)
Companion Cavalry Sword [2] (Gives a viable option for those who rather use 2 handed swords with decent reduction.)
Magician's Blade [2] (Fun weapon, not overly OP.)
Barbed Wire [1] (Ice Pick for Wanderer's.)
Onimaru [2] (@+7 and 120 Strength = +409 Attack, with a chance of AoE Curse. Most people have 100 Vit, the effect is negatable.)
Conch [1]
Shadow Staff [2] (@+7 = +170% Hell Inferno Damage, 35% MDEF pierce. Sure Sorcs can use this but it won't be as strong as a Warlock. Who can specialize into Hell Inferno build-currently inferior.)

Other Items:
Applause Sandals [1] (@+7 the inherent effects are not as OP as it may appear, in addition, you cannot use Amon Ra Card along with it.)
Abusive and Flattery Robe [1] (@+7 Abusive offer 28% defense pierce at best, the enchantments available for it are not usable before +8)
Royal Guard Shield [1] (These effects are acceptable if i think the rest of ^these are.)

ALL OF THE TIERRA GLORIA ITEMS

Limit-less Items:
Oriental Sword [2]
Hazy Demon Blade [3] (Makes Kunai Explosion more viable with options between Futsumitama [2] and other daggers.)
Ruin Bringer's Sword [3] and Glorified Royal Sword [3] (As a set, it gives nice boost to Cross Impact, however size penalty reduction and the option for other weapons become omitted.)
Ancient King's Twin Blade [3] (Not OP @ +7.)
Iron Nail [2] (Does not benefit from it's bonus below +8.)
Avenger [2] (Compared to other Axes, below +8, this weapon is not very effective.)
Red Lotus Sword [2] (Which isn't Red by the way. Below +9, this weapon isn't as effective as other choices.)
Aeon Staff [2] (While @+7 it offers decen Earth damage increments, it's 2 handed and in comparison to Survivor's set-Rod, shoes, mant. This may not be your best choice either.)
Diva Foxtail Wand [1] (Balanced in it's own right, magical Doram's are not as strong as they used to be.)
Mirage Foxtail Wand [1] (Balanced in it's own right, magical Doram's are not as strong as they used to be.)
Seraphim Coronet (For middle slotted item, when choosing between slotted sunglasses or anything else, this becomes very specific to a healer.)
Royal Bow [2] (This bow is your contender between a Giant Cross bow when you are considering an Arrow Storm build.)
Narcissus Bow [2] (Below +9, this weapon isn't as effective as other choices.)
Sorcerer's Sword [2] (Below +9, this weapon isn't as effective as other choices.)
Shadow Staff [2] (@+7, this is a fair choice for Sorcerer's who would like to power Earth Grave in comparison to Aeon Staff [2], otherwise. Below +9, this weapon isn't as effective as other choices.)
Ancient Hero Boots [1] (This item is necessary in combination with many of the items listed here. Below +9, this boot isn't as effective as other choices.)
Circlet of Survival [1] and Orbs of Survival (While the overall Set is OP at a glance, all-together this forces your character into a specific build with negatives as well. This should be allowed in conjunction with the Shoes and Mantaeu that is already permitted.)

Cards:
Elvira Card (See prior argument.)
Sropho Card (For a Melee character who has to come to you, this is an acceptable effect. Worried about 193 ASPD-Double Dagger double attack? that channels a specific build too.)
Soheon Card (Below +10, this is a useless choice.)
Laura Card (In the case of Sura, its your choice between this or White Knight card for damage, the critical only benefits you if you plan to use that Basic Attack.)
Rudo Card (This is fair for Flee users or those who want a little boost in their attack speed. However do note you are losing 40sp per attack! Very specific use.)

I have outlined all of the REAL analysis of these items, a job YOU and YOUR team fails to consider. You are all lazy and incompetent and do NOT understand Ragnarok as it's meant to be played. You do not play this game but merely exist within it as authoritative figures who seek to reap all of the cash benefits your players have to offer you, while you impede the quality of game play every maintenance with these shitty decisions. The players who decide to spend their hard work, time and money here deserve FAR better than this. The current state of Limit RO is not fun at all. You don't deserve a single dime of our cash let alone the time we do give you.

I call upon every Limit RO member to re-read this and make your own judgments about the state of Silk PvP on this server. These people (GM and team) should be held accountable if we are to spend hundreds of dollars here for YOUR ENTERTAINMENT. I call upon you to question Lai and his team for the lack of deliverance they bestowed upon you for all that you do for them.


Lai, you ****** suck bro. Punish me for all I care. The truth of what I stated is laid bare for all to judge your actions by. Before you do respond, I challenge you to make an informed statement to counter mine without making it some meaningless diversion to personally attack me

*Lol nice try Lai, removing my old post so no one has to question you going forward. I intend to keep this thread here. I've saved this entire post in the event you would try that. You failed to make a meaningful reply to mine and leaned on your "drones" to do your talking for you.*

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